Notes: InCommon Assurance Monthly Implementers call for 5-Nov-2014
Slides used for this Assurance Call are here
Ann West, Internet2
David Walker, Internet2
Steve Devoti, UW-Madison/AAC Chair
Mark Jones, UT Houston
Eric Goodman, UCOP
Benn Oshrin, Spherical Cow Consulting
Randy Miotke, Colorado State University
Susn Neitsch, Texas A&M University
Tom Golson, Texas A&M University
Jeff Capehardt, University of Florida
The October 2014 Assurance Call was an IAM Online featuring University of Nebraska and UMBC presenting on their experience with InCommon Bronze certification and security. The archives are linked from here http://www.incommon.org/iamonline/
Today's call will focus on InCommon Assurance and US Government Discussions
- Update on the FICAM Program
- Implications on the InCommon Assurance Program
- Next Steps for the Assurance Advisory Committee (AAC)
FICAM was based on NIST 800-63
Currently there are 3 FICAM Approved Trust Framework Providers:
- Kantara (large IDP's and international) https://kantarainitiative.org/idassurance/
- Safe BioPharma http://www.safe-biopharma.org/
- InCommon (addressing FICAM requirements with HE flexibility)
FICAM 1.0 spec and related documents focused on identity provider and credential practices.
Since the approval of FICAM 2.0, there are a few changes:
FICAM 2.0 includes more, such as:
- federation requirements outside identity assurance
- Citizen2Government target
- Componentized Identity Assurance approach
Token Manager + Identity Services Manager = Credential Service Manager
FICAM 2.x includes federation requirements
- Change Management
- Entity Info
- Memorandum of Agreement
- Attributes for ID Matching
Question arose: Can't InCommon handle this for the InCommon IDPs?
Much progress in the discussions with FICAM.
See slide 6 for progress on these issues.
An important topic is componentized services (see slide )
Issues with NIH and NSF
See slide #
InCommon's discussions with NIH and NSF resulted in FICAM accepting our standardized attribute bundle (R&S) rather than the attributes FICAM had been requiring (which has included legal name and DOB)
See slide #
GSA (home agency for FICAM) has joined InCommon, Looks like GSA will be the focal point for other agencies.
We are piloting insertion of community tags into the metadata, and FICAM will have one of those early pilots.
That will be a powerful ability
This is in process, not announced yet
Componentized serivces ,
how can FICAM enable agencies to pick and choose, for example with
for example a Kantara Approved Token Manager and a Safe BioPharma Approved Identity Services Manager and they work together to be a Credential Services Provider
there was a meeting in DC about this with intersted disucsion
interesting discussion about the major pieces
need to audit the glue between token manager and identity services manager
There are under 20 pieces that tie between the components.
Once audited that could be a full CSP
This would allow us to outsource pieces
If you had an adult distance learning service and need it be become a FICAM approved silver service
That could be considered an approved identity provider .
We are also working with
NIH and NSF in context of assurance and federation in general
They would like usage of InCommon Credentials to grow.
Many faculty are using Google Credentials
More difficult to address assurance and broader needs of the agencies.
Need persistence across the organization for the researchers
If they move from one organization to another
there are issues
NSF is piloting ORCD to adress moving/persistance
NIH sees a need for Bronzish
Silver without the Identity proofing
There are community needs
one of those is for a MFA profile
Ability to assert Multi Factorness to a provider like Workday , would be triggered based on a need to access a financial record.
Also need to replace the POP approach of "Post your Practices" and have baseline practices
AAC is working to revise its charter
To do more than manage the assurance process for certification.
Things are moving slowly. We are seeing what needs to be modified to increase trust within the federation.
This does not expand a lot the AACs charge. But it is broader than managing a process.
We have received lots of feedback (from our SP partners) on the lack of usefulness of the POP and the lack of Compliance. Some are not updating their POPs.
We have talked about decomposing the assurance profiles into trust marks to drive incremental progress within the federation.
So not this big thing. Silver.
Get people on the road to higher trust and higher assurance.
There is work at GA Tech on Trust Marks
Can address what we have heard from community about the POP and about MFA.
Would give more flexibiltiy.
ERIC Goodman asks, there is Vectors of Trust group. Here at UC, he is taking similar approach in standards within UC. For incremental progress short of silver.
Is there a sense of what the scope of these trustmarks might be? Eric wants to do things that would map to trustmarks. Looking for , are there specific targets that would be more useful for us to use?
SteveD: this work is not super far along
The GA Tech people have done a lot of work
Have broken 863 into trustmarks.
SteveD has thrown things onto paper.
It is drafty
There should be a good mapping...
We have not taken our assurance profiles and deomposed them into trust marks yet.
Eric: the trustmarks will decompose the IAP and the POP? so those would merge?
SteveD: I think so
Eric Goodman is a good working group member!
Any interest in asserting MFA in a profile?
Eric G: yes from other campuses
Do you have a definition for what that would mean?
We are running into what TomScavo ran into. There are apps that want MFA and some campuses have MFA tokens and some don't
we need to figure out under what circumstances would the SP application trust that MFA had been done by the campus. Versus invoking its own. Don't want campus MFA plus application MFA
That's the danger you have if the SP requires MFA before the IDP supports it
David: from the Multi Context Broker point of view..
What is MFA? Define it as lights as possible, just some other factor is used.
Paul Caskey said DUO lets your remeber for 30 days you had done your MFA
I want to be able to disallow that
So he needs 2 different MFA profiles
TWOFER honors the forced reauthentication. DUO will not? You must define 2 different sub modules
Session length of 30 days?
Eric: to take it to the trustmarks, what the trustmark would be asserting is something about your MFA practice.
David: yes it would say you do MFA. the other says you are doing MFA and forcing reauthentication in the current time.
Eric: But that is interactive.....
David: You define what you mean by MFA and there is some certification process that says an IDP has that trustmark. Then assertions it sends out would be honored. There is the IAP and IAQ on the trustmark
DUO might need to take an action to be compenstated for in Shib softeawre
But once you say you are doing MFA it is not that simple
we will need to stick a stake in the sand
Ann: would you want to leverage your use case to do a set of MFA community practices?
Erci: this might be in 6 monts. There is not focus on this yet.
But Eric will raise this at meetings.
David: we could get interest from Paul
Jeff Capehart asks about TIER
Ann: that is to accellearate IDM acrtoss HE
Sustaining Shib and Grouper long term is one issue
We are good at business to business
But we have researchers outside the campus that need to access serivces that are shared by a VO so they act as an individual member of this group. Also need to accellerate abiliy for schools taht dont ahve an effective IDM system and need one to access federated services
From an advanced Institution, your participation may be for a component or two. You might want to leverage just parts . But there will be practices, part of the federation is , the campuses and SPs that are members. A big issues is normalizing practices. Assurance is part of that. all of that is important. it's about organization and infrastructure
JeffC: is there a commitment to do things in a certain way? Like the POP, like MFA, like certificates? Do you get to pick and choose?
Ann: yes you can pick and choose , but the practices will be a requirement. Persistant identifiers are very important. That is a key one.
Can you be in TIER and not do Assurance?
Ann: we are in an early stage. requirements not yet set by the community. supporting practices and re usability. The practices must be focused on a business need.
they all must come together to service a business need.
Next Assurance Implementers Call: Jan. 2015 (no call in Dec. 2014)
Emily Eisbruch, Technology Transfer Analyst
office: +1-734-352-4996 | mobile +1-734-730-5749